John Patrick Mullin, Co-founder of MANTRA, on Three Phases of RWAs, Blockchain’s iPhone Moment, and Perfect Canvas for Asset Tokenization | Ep. 372

In an insightful interview with Cryptonews Podcast host Matt Zahab, John Patrick Mullin, co-founder of Mantra , a Layer 1 blockchain for RWA tokenization, discussed the three phases of real-world assets (RWAs) and the current stage.

He talked about blockchain’s “iPhone moment,” blockchain as the perfect ledger for asset tokenization to live on eternally, building a non-chain exchange, and Mantra’s ‘OMtober.”

Blockchain Hasn’t Had Its iPhone Moment Yet

Blockchain still has a ways to go, Mullin suggested during his chat with Matt.

While at the Korea Blockchain Week in Seoul, Mullin attended a dinner hosted by Layer-1 for IP, Story Protocol .

One of the investors and supporters, Chris Dixon, crypto partner at A16z , remarked that the space hasn’t had its iPhone/Facebook moment yet.

While Dixon spoke in the context of internet protocol tokenization, Mullin said that blockchain hasn’t yet seen a particular application or case take off due to a “convergence of technology” and “mindshare.”

“Everything kind of came together, culture, to have this like aha moment where everything went crazy up and to the right,” said Mullin. “And you haven’t had that application at the blockchain level yet.”

And more broadly speaking, he remarked, the tokenization of real-world assets, “when transmuted into some sort of in-the-palm-of-your-hand application,” allowing users to access any product, anytime, anywhere – “that’s the holy grail.”

Three Phases of RWA

Many industry experts would argue that RWA tokenization is the future.

Mullin told us that he sees three phases of this process.

Now, we’re in phase one: the supply side.

This encompasses bringing high-quality assets to an on-chain environment.

He stressed that creating a token is not the hard part. But creating legitimate ones that are legally bound to the real world—that are of high quality and also something people actually want—is difficult.

Next, the projects need to create high total value locked (TVL), offer many interesting use cases, and work with governments to ensure economic value and rights in the real world.

Phase two is liquidity and trading.

This step entails many regulatory actions. Numerous different questions require answers here and on a global scale because this is “an asset class by asset class, jurisdiction by jurisdiction” case.

“It’s really just go out there one by one, grind it out,” said Mullin. It takes time, but it’s worth it: this is a trillion-dollar industry/opportunity.

Phase three is composability.

This is that “secret aha moment,” said Mullin with everything “in the palm of your hand.”

This includes composability in different DeFi applications, across chain, financial primitives, environments, across jurisdictions – anything, anywhere, and anytime.

Blockchain: Perfect Canvas for Eternal Asset Tokenization

Mantra is working to create something that’s a legitimate value-add for everyone involved, Mullin stressed.

“It’s important that when you’re doing anything tokenized, there needs to be legitimate value for the end user,” he said. “It needs to be better than what they get in the real world.”

And blockchains are an excellent way to accomplish this. In general, they are perfect financial ledgers.

“That gives a perfect canvas for asset tokenization to live on,” the co-founder argued.

When we add smart contracts on top of a blockchain ledger and then make them composable and interoperable, “you can start doing really cool stuff” and “make things more accessible [and] programmable.”

Then, if on-chain becomes the new online, we’ll need a chain that supports the ability to bring assets there safely, legally, and composably with the current market.

The next step is looking for a venue for these assets to interact and be traded.

Therefore, Mantra is building a Layer-1 ecosystem at the chain protocol level, as well as an application/exchange.

The latter “has been segmented out, it’s its own separate thing now.”

But looking at the sheer numbers, real-world assets are a huge opportunity for projects and new capital to enter the crypto space, said Mullin.

Especially because there’s “a lot of recycling of capital” currently.

Building a Non-Chain Exchange

Before even starting Mantra, Mullin was working on a centralized exchange project where users would trade all different types of assets in one place: crypto, securities, FX, commodities, and more.

But the timing wasn’t right, and the technology wasn’t there yet.

Nonetheless, Mullin still believes this is something the world needs.

“We just felt that the world needed a Layer-1 for real-world assets,” he said.

RWAs are a multi-trillion-dollar industry, and becoming the Layer-1 of provenance for the majority or a significant portion of it is “a huge opportunity” worth putting in the effort for.

Therefore, Mantra aims to be the chain of records for RWA provenance.

In line with this, the team was first building a non-chain exchange on the ETH mainnet. This came with scalability and cost issues, among others.

Layer-2s, Layer-3s, bridging – all of these are too complicated for mass non-crypto native adoption.

So Mantra needed to work on simplifying that with their Layer 1.

Furthermore, they wanted sovereignty over a valid intercept, which you don’t get with anything but an L1.

Notably, Mantra is permissionless. It’s not a regulated L1 but supports permission and regulated use cases. The exchange will also be regulated.

Mullin also noted that the team’s biggest investors are in the UAE, where they’ve spent a lot of time for the exchange product licensing process.

Mantra built up “credibility” and a very strong network of investors, business people, and really strong institutional partners there.”

Mantra’s OMtober

Finally, Mullin touched on Mantra’s current work and plans.

“Obviously, we want to be the leader in asset tokenization in the space,” he said.

Therefore, the mainnet is coming imminently.

Additionally, there are many “big RWA deals” and partnerships.

So it will be “an exciting month,” which the team has named “OMtober.”

Mantra has major plans for next year as well, he added.

One goal is to “push those TVL numbers,” with Mullin predicting $100 billion of RWAs by the end of 2026.

“If you can do a single deal that brings a billion, and there’s a lot of that opportunity, that’s a whole different ballgame,” he said. #And we’re talking literally, we’re doing billion-dollar deals right now.”

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That’s not all.

In this interview, Mullin also discussed:

• global and individual relevance of RWAs;
• institutional adoption of RWA and the incoming retail product market fit;
• reasons for strong interest in RWAs and MANTRA;
• a $500 million deal with the multi-billion-dollar real estate conglomerate Mag Global;
• the partnership with aircraft leasing and financing platform Novus Aviation Capital;
• living in Hong Kong and (academic) traveling across the world;
• JP before blockchain, journey into crypto, becoming an early adopter, and getting into Bitcoin in 2013.

You can watch the full podcast episode here.

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About John Patrick Mullin

John Patrick Mullin is the co-founder of Mantra, a Layer 1 blockchain for RWA tokenization.

He is also a Hong Kong-based entrepreneur and builder, focused on decentralized finance (DeFi), blockchain technology, digital assets, and Web3.

Having worked in DeFi and exchange/brokerage businesses, Mullin has invested and built in the crypto and digital assets space for over ten years.

He has raised tens of millions of dollars for various ventures while working with a dedicated team of more than fifty builders worldwide.